Metropolitan Police

David Kurten: Are you satisfied that the Metropolitan Police are currently upholding the Peelite principles of policing?

Sadiq Khan: Thank you, Chair. It is a source of great pride for London that the Peelite principles of policing by consent with the respect and co-operation of the public still apply. Officers are proud to police with impartiality and without fear or favour. It remains one of our greatest strengths that the police strive to build strong relationships with the public with consent at their core. For nearly 200 years, this has been the basis of policing across the country.
Living up to these principles requires constant vigilance. That is why a system of checks and balances, including the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) and Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services (HMICFRS) is vital. I am pleased that in recent HMICFRS police effectiveness, efficiency and legitimacy inspections, the MPS was judged to be ‘good’ in relation to legitimacy.
It is vital that our police service retains the trust and confidence of the public and neither I nor the Commissioner is complacent about this. We meet regularly to discuss public confidence and satisfaction levels and I am proud to have appointed London’s first Victims Commissioner to ensure victims’ voices are also heard.
Openness and transparency are vital to building trust and confidence, making it crucial to empower communities to scrutinise the police. That is why the Mayor’s Office for Policing and Crime (MOPAC)
co-ordinates both community monitoring groups and independent custody visitors, providing important checks and promoting the rights of Londoners. I am proud that we have maintained a police service that operates largely unarmed, is more diverse than it has ever been, and continues to operate with the overall trust of Londoners in the face of many challenges.
I recognise, however, that there is room for improvement. Levels of trust in the police are not equal across London’s communities and this is something we must address, particularly with black Londoners. My new action plan has been co-developed with communities and the police to secure greater trust and confidence in policing. This co-production shows a willingness to listen to communities and demonstrates that the Peelite principles are very much alive and well.

David Kurten: Good morning, MrMayor. Thank you for your answer. The Peelite principles are fantastic and should be adhered to at all times.
You mentioned there impartiality. It is one of the principles that the police should constantly demonstrate impartiality to the law. However, that has not been happening over the last six months, particularly in terms of protests, demonstrations and rallies. We do now have in London two-tier policing and there are different approaches taken to Black Lives Matter protests and freedom rallies.
Why is there a difference in the approach taken by police to these rallies?

Léonie Cooper: Chair, enough with this kind of nonsense. Honestly.

Sadiq Khan: I do not accept there is a difference. The police do police without fear or favour. The short answer to your question is actually looking at the circumstances of the time the Black Lives Matter protests were taking place and the circumstances now and also the regulations, the rules and the law as they were then and are now. The police are quite clear in relation to treating everybody fairly and equally. If there has been a difference over the last nine months in relation to policing protests, that is probably down to the rules and the law as they were at the time and the increase or decrease of the virus rather than partiality from the police.

David Kurten: I will give you an example. On Monday this week, 14December [2020], there was a freedom rally in Parliament Square and the decision was taken to close it down. I was there to observe what was happening. Just a few days before, under the same regulations, on 10December there was a Black Lives Matter march through Tottenham. It was given an escort by officers of the MPS, despite them marching along the streets chanting, “Take it to the streets. Eff the police”.
There was a clear difference there. Can you explain that difference, MrMayor?

Sadiq Khan: I am not aware of the two different cases, but what I would suggest to the Member is that if he is unhappy with police conduct, he can make a complaint to the IOPC or raise it directly with the Commissioner. I am simply not aware of the two marches or the differences between the two.

David Kurten: I would like to ask you about your thoughts even though you might not be aware. At the 14December freedom rally that I mentioned, as was also the case on 28November when there was a large freedom rally in central London - under different regulations, admittedly - there were actions taken that were appalling. You have often spoken about combatting violence against women and girls but it seems that the police tactic there was to push in snatch squads to pick on individual women, pull them off from the crowds, beat them to the ground, put handcuffs on them, surround them with 20 other police officers to that no one could help the women and girls with placards clearly in distress. That is not something that is going to sustain public support for the police.
What do you think about that police tactic, MrMayor?

Sadiq Khan: I cannot comment on the circumstances you have described, but what I can say is that in public order situations there are experienced public order commanders on the ground. There are experienced teams working the control room that can see the various closed-circuit television (CCTV) options. Often for big demonstrations there are also helicopters in the air. The police do communicate with each other and often have to move swiftly in relation to an individual incident.
I am not sure about the example you are describing, but if there is a protest and you are unhappy with the way it is being policed, the sensible thing to do is to raise your concerns with the Commissioner, with the IOPC or at the Police and Crime Committee. You are in a privileged position, being one of 25 Assembly Members who has direct access to the Commissioner and her deputies. What I would encourage you to do if you are unhappy with the way the police are policing protests, please do raise it.
What is important, as you say, is that we police impartially. I am quite clear that it is important police do so.

David Kurten: Sure, MrMayor. I have and other people who have raised things, but you are the Mayor of London. You are the Police and Crime Commissioner for London. You are paid £152,734 a year to do that job.
I would like to ask you about something else before I finish my question, which is even more disturbing. On 14December, a protester was hit over the head by a policeman wielding a baton, fell to the ground and was hit over the head again by that same policeman. There is clear footage of this happening. Do you ever think that it is right that a policeman should hit or try to punch someone in the face? That is a red zone. If someone is hit over the head with a baton, they could die instantly. Is that ever acceptable, MrMayor, do you think?

Sadiq Khan: You are raising a factual situation and then asking a question that is hypothetical. The police have the equipment to keep themselves safe and to keep the public safe. That includes batons. They also have, for example, the use of taser as well. It is really important that the police are policing by consent and the police in a majority of times do it in a peaceful way. Sometimes, unfortunately, there is a need to use force. I know the Commissioner is examining the use of force in relation to reviews she is undertaking.
The police have to police impartially. They have to police without fear or favour. They are one of the most scrutinised police forces in the world. I speak as somebody who has practised in the area of law around police accountability. Also, I am somebody who, as you remind me, is a Police and Crime Commissioner. If there are concerns that you have or Londoners have or people visiting our city to protest have, then it is important that they raise them through the various channels there are. That includes‑‑

David Kurten: MrMayor, sorry, I do have to cut you off. I do not have much more time. I am bringing them to you because you are in that position. I will also bring them to [Dame] CressidaDick [DBE QPM, Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis] and the various bodies that are there to scrutinise the police and take action as well --

Sadiq Khan: I am really happy, AssemblyMember, to raise the particular issues you have raised today with the Commissioner, if you want me to do so, Chair. I will do that.

David Kurten: Yes. OK. We will do that. OK. I have to finish now. Thank you, MrMayor.

Navin Shah: AssemblyMemberHall, you have a supplementary question?